Sunday, April 20, 2008
Christians and the perception that they hate gays
Wow. I'm exhausted. I know people think it's funny that I crash hard after giving a message, but the only way to explain it, is feeling like I just prepped for a road race, gave it my all, and fell across the finish line. Today, was all that and then some. I would be really interested to hear your response to today's message. There were so many things that I could have added but didn't have time for. My hope and prayer is that I started spiritual conversations with you and your friends, your small group, your family. I would be interested in hearing your response to some of the questions that were on the outline today too. Here they are:
-What is your moral compass for life? Give an honest assessment of what factors truly give you direction with how you see right and wrong.
-How do you deal with scriptures that you don’t like? Make a decision to study and go deeper with these scriptures.
-Why do you think people see homosexuality as a greater sin than others? How can you help to change attitudes?
-What can you do to responded differently to this complex issue? Are there some practical ways for you to express compassion? What conversations do you need to have and with whom?
I'd like to add one: what would be a "third" way to respond to the homosexual community, OR to a homosexual person?
-What is your moral compass for life? Give an honest assessment of what factors truly give you direction with how you see right and wrong.
-How do you deal with scriptures that you don’t like? Make a decision to study and go deeper with these scriptures.
-Why do you think people see homosexuality as a greater sin than others? How can you help to change attitudes?
-What can you do to responded differently to this complex issue? Are there some practical ways for you to express compassion? What conversations do you need to have and with whom?
I'd like to add one: what would be a "third" way to respond to the homosexual community, OR to a homosexual person?
# posted by Pat @ 5:07 PM 
Comments:
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This came via email from a Genesis human. I post with permission:
I would just like to thank you for the sermon today on Homsexualtiy and Christians. This is a subject for me that I have found very disturbing and you totally opened my eyes and made it in reality very simple. To me it is just incredible that the Bible holds all the answers, no matter what society says, once you go back to the Word it puts in a nutshell how we should be living.
I would just like to thank you for the sermon today on Homsexualtiy and Christians. This is a subject for me that I have found very disturbing and you totally opened my eyes and made it in reality very simple. To me it is just incredible that the Bible holds all the answers, no matter what society says, once you go back to the Word it puts in a nutshell how we should be living.
This is a very tough topic and I appreciate how well you handled it in a thought-provoking way. I was surprised by the "turn around" idea: about the church informing the Gay Pride folks that they (the church members) were trying to change themselves.
There still hangs the question I encounter from gay males about what are they to do when they have no attraction to women but are (only) attracted to and want to love and be loved by another man. Do they live a lie and marry a woman, or do they live in single loneliness and celibacy? One of my (now deceased) best friends took that second path - he had male and female friends, but was always lonely. I wonder why God would lay such a burden on some of his children.
The Kinsey Institute and Johnson Institute illuminated homosexuality as being comprised of two continua: One refers to sexual behavior- from exclusively heterosexual to exclusively homosexual. The second continum refers to sexual arousal-from exclusively heterosexual to exclusively homosexual. Some male prisoners, for example, may engage in homosexual behavior, but are mostly or only aroused by females.
Behavior is certainly more controllable than innate arousal.
There still hangs the question I encounter from gay males about what are they to do when they have no attraction to women but are (only) attracted to and want to love and be loved by another man. Do they live a lie and marry a woman, or do they live in single loneliness and celibacy? One of my (now deceased) best friends took that second path - he had male and female friends, but was always lonely. I wonder why God would lay such a burden on some of his children.
The Kinsey Institute and Johnson Institute illuminated homosexuality as being comprised of two continua: One refers to sexual behavior- from exclusively heterosexual to exclusively homosexual. The second continum refers to sexual arousal-from exclusively heterosexual to exclusively homosexual. Some male prisoners, for example, may engage in homosexual behavior, but are mostly or only aroused by females.
Behavior is certainly more controllable than innate arousal.
Doc,
thanks for the comment, your background and expertise bringing added weight to the subject. For starters, there were so many things that I just didn't have time to comment on, and the idea of what a homosexual person "does" with the same sex attraction, do the live a lie and marry, OR remain celibate and lonely. Complex question, but here goes: I think we need to think very biblically here, especially around the subject of intimacy and community. We also need to address the "change" idea too. God wired humans to crave community and intimacy, I would argue that without those things, it is difficult to BE human. However intimacy does not necessarily mean sexual intimacy. I have intimate friendships with men emotionally and spiritually, and there is great value in those relationships. I also believe that God's desire for us to live in community addresses our need for companionship and alievates at least some loneliness. The truth is people can live without sex, but they cannot truly live without intimacy and community. Our culture has said that life without sexual intimacy is no life at all, but we can all name healthy human beings who have been celibate and lived amazing lives. I Corinthians 10:13 says "But remember that the temptations that come into your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will keep the temptation from becoming so strong that you can't stand up against it. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you will not give in to it."
I believe this verse is true, because it is true in my life, and it is God's word. Yes, having to live a celibate life has got to be difficult, but I think it would also cause us to confront a culture that is so sexually saturated that we have perhaps "over valued" our sexuality.
Change: I have heard some Christians argue that with Jesus in their lives, homosexual people can become heterosexual people. While I do know people where this is true, I don't know if we can say this is true for all people. On one hand, if the Gospel isn't about change and transformation...than it isn't about anything. But I also know God loving, Jesus following people with a same sex attraction, who intentionally put themselves outside of tempting situations. In other words, they are spirit filled but still have the attraction. I also know God loving alcholics, who would love to have a get drunk, they are still attracted to the bottle, but avoid temptation.
I believe God can change us and take away sinful desires. But I also believe that He can allow desires to remain, so that He can work in us through the Spirit's self discipline work in our lives.
thanks for the comment, your background and expertise bringing added weight to the subject. For starters, there were so many things that I just didn't have time to comment on, and the idea of what a homosexual person "does" with the same sex attraction, do the live a lie and marry, OR remain celibate and lonely. Complex question, but here goes: I think we need to think very biblically here, especially around the subject of intimacy and community. We also need to address the "change" idea too. God wired humans to crave community and intimacy, I would argue that without those things, it is difficult to BE human. However intimacy does not necessarily mean sexual intimacy. I have intimate friendships with men emotionally and spiritually, and there is great value in those relationships. I also believe that God's desire for us to live in community addresses our need for companionship and alievates at least some loneliness. The truth is people can live without sex, but they cannot truly live without intimacy and community. Our culture has said that life without sexual intimacy is no life at all, but we can all name healthy human beings who have been celibate and lived amazing lives. I Corinthians 10:13 says "But remember that the temptations that come into your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will keep the temptation from becoming so strong that you can't stand up against it. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you will not give in to it."
I believe this verse is true, because it is true in my life, and it is God's word. Yes, having to live a celibate life has got to be difficult, but I think it would also cause us to confront a culture that is so sexually saturated that we have perhaps "over valued" our sexuality.
Change: I have heard some Christians argue that with Jesus in their lives, homosexual people can become heterosexual people. While I do know people where this is true, I don't know if we can say this is true for all people. On one hand, if the Gospel isn't about change and transformation...than it isn't about anything. But I also know God loving, Jesus following people with a same sex attraction, who intentionally put themselves outside of tempting situations. In other words, they are spirit filled but still have the attraction. I also know God loving alcholics, who would love to have a get drunk, they are still attracted to the bottle, but avoid temptation.
I believe God can change us and take away sinful desires. But I also believe that He can allow desires to remain, so that He can work in us through the Spirit's self discipline work in our lives.
The other point for me: IF the research definitely proves sexual preference is genetic make-up, then this is also part of God's deal (read : creation)...and we of the smaller minds better back off.
Graciously.
To live and let love. Won't that be a true test...taking it on Faith.
I remember the loneliness quotient for YEARS, for 2 friends of mine...just devastating to them both for so long...the same reaction for the straight friend, as the gay friend: To maybe being lucky enough to be 2nd on some peoples' lists (ie: family), but never number one on anyone's.
Susie
PEACE
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Graciously.
To live and let love. Won't that be a true test...taking it on Faith.
I remember the loneliness quotient for YEARS, for 2 friends of mine...just devastating to them both for so long...the same reaction for the straight friend, as the gay friend: To maybe being lucky enough to be 2nd on some peoples' lists (ie: family), but never number one on anyone's.
Susie
PEACE
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